Bakgrund: Min preferens är att sopa alla kartor och minis när jag grottbemästrar 5e. Vill skapa en upplevelse som är en sorts mix av Zork 1 och Quake snarare än något schack-liknande uppifrån feels. Därför att fuck Nethack, typ. Kanske är det bara en massa woo men sån är ju jag. Kanske är Dragon Quest, Wizardry, The Dark Spire, Sweet Home också rätt bra exempel på hur jag kör, medan Final Fantasy, Radiant Historia, Fire Emblem osv inte är så likt. [Inte för att det är dåliga spel men det är ngt annat.]
Märkte att implicit i 5es design finns ett tänk om att det är superviktigt om man är i melee-range (dvs oftast 5 fot med dom flesta vapnen) eller inte, men att det kan gott bli ludd när man kommer utanför det avståndet. Och ur det uppstod någon sorts tanke om melee-grupper. Att om Bob, Alice, och Cindy slåss i ett dammoln och Evil-Lyn, Frodo och Groo slåss i en annan så är det superrelevant. Och att det finns konsekvenser (opportunity attack, roguens-sneak-bonus) för att gå ut och in ur såna grupper.
Även om jag som SL har en karta bakom skärmen (dvs dungeon-kartan) så försöker jag att undvika att mentalt placera osynliga "schack-pjäser" på den. Den typen av spatiell micro-managing blir bökig som tusan att kommunicera kring. Och våra strider blev mer och mer awesome och snabba och enkla och coola. Och dom allra flesta av monstrens och spelarklassernas förmågor i 5e kan verkligen komma till sin rätt trots det enkla tänket m melee-grupper. Vi vill veta vem är i strid med vem, och det räcker.
Men, vi hade en spännande chase-fight med en Decayer där det, pga det var en gerilla-liknande jaktstrid i en labyrint, för en gångsskull var urviktigt med range, movements etc. Och efter det uppluckrades vårt smidiga stridssystem och jag fick återigen konstant frågor "exakt hur långt borta är hon?" osv. Därför skrev jag ner det här dokumentet i somras och det fick oss tillbaka på spåret. Dom använder ganska mkt Thorn Whip och Ray of Frost och förvandlar sig till Fire Elementals därför har jag gjort house rules för dom tre grejerna.
För jakter har vi kört systemet i DMG hela tiden.
I "ordinary fights" är det ingen större skillnad på om du har 20 ft move, 30 el 40. Den egenskapen kommer bara spela roll om det blir en Volley eller en Chase.
Targets & Ranges in Fights
Chases, Volleys and ordinary fights
From now on:
There are three types of fight. Chase, Volley and ordinary fight. A fight can change from one type to another as circumstances change.
We'll be clear about when we're in a Chase or a Volley.
Volleys are snipe fights, like great distances outdoors, for example, or when some ability (like flying) or feature (like being in different towers or on opposite sides of a river) enforces range.
In Volleys and Chases, all ranges on spells, weapons etc are as listed, and matter. (There's no rules difference between Chases and Volleys, they work the same. I just think of them very differently, but they have the same mechanics.)
In ordinary fights, the listed ranges don't on spells, weapons and movement speeds don't matter. All questions of range is just yes, yes, yes. Can my weapon reach them? Yes. Can they run up to me? Yes.
Reach still matter, because reach is a way for someone to be one-sided mêlée engagement -- e.g. they're stuck to you but you're not stuck to them, if you have higher reach than them, if you haven't closed in.
Thorn Whip
Thorn Whip in ordinary fight:
Thorn Whip in Chase or Volley works with the listed ranges.
Getting pulled out doesn't trigger opportunity attacks, the rule book says:
"You also don’t provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction. For example, you don’t provoke an opportunity attack if an explosion hurls you out of a foe’s reach or if gravity causes you to fall past an enemy."
Ray of Frost
Ray of Frost in ordinary fight:
Ray of Frost works best in Chase or Volley, where it works with the listed speeds.
Moving between mêlée groups on your own (if you're not pulled), that triggers opportunity attacks.
Fire Elemental "walk-through"
Why these rules?
Also. There is a style of D&D called "Blueprints of the mind". That's where every distance and nook and cranny matter but it's expressed though words. I've described it as "Playing 4e [or Dungeon Command] over the telephone". It's possible, but it's a hassle. The usual good advice (including from the designers of D&D) is to avoid this style.
Instead, I want to go to "Theatre of the Mind" which is more abstract, like in Magic cards where you don't bring out miniatures just to see two grizzly bears fight.
TotM is recommended by the 5e team, but I'm defining things more strictly and extremely than they do because I need that strictness and clarity.
Won't the game lose all the interesting tactics?
I think guerilla fights like the spiders in the mines, they could also still work well. It's going to be awesome
What happens if I fly out of reach, or run out of reach?
Spell Targets
The question of how many targets a spell can hit, that's not a question of range so it's the same for all three types of fight.
I really love the "Targets in Areas of Effects" rule, it made my life as DM a lot simpler and the amount of description mistakes I make lower.
The spells are as if they were written with a number of targets instead of an area. The area becomes more of a flavor thing.
The number is the area divided by 5 rounded up, except lines (divided by 30) or cones (divided by 10).
The amount of targets can go +1d3 or -1d3 if it's very tight or very wide.
Comments
Please don't get angry if you don't like it. We can talk about it
I wanted to get this written down so it's not something that changes from moment to moment. Clear rules are the Spike's best friend after all.
Mina spelares kommentar var "men är det inte typ så vi redan kört?" och jag sade "ja men jag ville ha det nerskrivet." Och sen körde vi så och det blev ett jättebra verktyg. Att kunna svara "nja, vi är i en ordinary fight just nu, så..." på nån centimeterfråga.
Märkte att implicit i 5es design finns ett tänk om att det är superviktigt om man är i melee-range (dvs oftast 5 fot med dom flesta vapnen) eller inte, men att det kan gott bli ludd när man kommer utanför det avståndet. Och ur det uppstod någon sorts tanke om melee-grupper. Att om Bob, Alice, och Cindy slåss i ett dammoln och Evil-Lyn, Frodo och Groo slåss i en annan så är det superrelevant. Och att det finns konsekvenser (opportunity attack, roguens-sneak-bonus) för att gå ut och in ur såna grupper.
Även om jag som SL har en karta bakom skärmen (dvs dungeon-kartan) så försöker jag att undvika att mentalt placera osynliga "schack-pjäser" på den. Den typen av spatiell micro-managing blir bökig som tusan att kommunicera kring. Och våra strider blev mer och mer awesome och snabba och enkla och coola. Och dom allra flesta av monstrens och spelarklassernas förmågor i 5e kan verkligen komma till sin rätt trots det enkla tänket m melee-grupper. Vi vill veta vem är i strid med vem, och det räcker.
Men, vi hade en spännande chase-fight med en Decayer där det, pga det var en gerilla-liknande jaktstrid i en labyrint, för en gångsskull var urviktigt med range, movements etc. Och efter det uppluckrades vårt smidiga stridssystem och jag fick återigen konstant frågor "exakt hur långt borta är hon?" osv. Därför skrev jag ner det här dokumentet i somras och det fick oss tillbaka på spåret. Dom använder ganska mkt Thorn Whip och Ray of Frost och förvandlar sig till Fire Elementals därför har jag gjort house rules för dom tre grejerna.
För jakter har vi kört systemet i DMG hela tiden.
I "ordinary fights" är det ingen större skillnad på om du har 20 ft move, 30 el 40. Den egenskapen kommer bara spela roll om det blir en Volley eller en Chase.
Targets & Ranges in Fights
Chases, Volleys and ordinary fights
From now on:
There are three types of fight. Chase, Volley and ordinary fight. A fight can change from one type to another as circumstances change.
We'll be clear about when we're in a Chase or a Volley.
Volleys are snipe fights, like great distances outdoors, for example, or when some ability (like flying) or feature (like being in different towers or on opposite sides of a river) enforces range.
In Volleys and Chases, all ranges on spells, weapons etc are as listed, and matter. (There's no rules difference between Chases and Volleys, they work the same. I just think of them very differently, but they have the same mechanics.)
In ordinary fights, the listed ranges don't on spells, weapons and movement speeds don't matter. All questions of range is just yes, yes, yes. Can my weapon reach them? Yes. Can they run up to me? Yes.
Reach still matter, because reach is a way for someone to be one-sided mêlée engagement -- e.g. they're stuck to you but you're not stuck to them, if you have higher reach than them, if you haven't closed in.
Thorn Whip
Thorn Whip in ordinary fight:
- If you attack someone in another mêlée group, you pull them out of it.
- If you attack someone outside any mêlée group, you pull them into yours.
- If you attack someone in your own mêlée group, it's just another attack.
- You can also pull them into caltrops or similar, instead.
Thorn Whip in Chase or Volley works with the listed ranges.
Getting pulled out doesn't trigger opportunity attacks, the rule book says:
"You also don’t provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction. For example, you don’t provoke an opportunity attack if an explosion hurls you out of a foe’s reach or if gravity causes you to fall past an enemy."
Ray of Frost
Ray of Frost in ordinary fight:
- if you are frosted, you can't run from one mêlée group to the next, but you can move into mêlée groups if you're out, or out of mêlée groups if you're in
- if you aren't frosted, you can move between mêlée groups.
Ray of Frost works best in Chase or Volley, where it works with the listed speeds.
Moving between mêlée groups on your own (if you're not pulled), that triggers opportunity attacks.
Fire Elemental "walk-through"
- In ordinary fight, no more than 5+dF enemies and no more than 1 mêlée group can be lit just by moving through them.
Why these rules?
- Because it's very tiring for the DM to keep track of, and especially to communicate, all the distances, especially inside castles and dungeons. I can do it but it takes a lot of concentration and I'm already running all the pretties.
- Because ranges causes more frustrating "Oh, you can't do that, there's a wall" moments.
- Because I don't want to start using maps & minis
Also. There is a style of D&D called "Blueprints of the mind". That's where every distance and nook and cranny matter but it's expressed though words. I've described it as "Playing 4e [or Dungeon Command] over the telephone". It's possible, but it's a hassle. The usual good advice (including from the designers of D&D) is to avoid this style.
Instead, I want to go to "Theatre of the Mind" which is more abstract, like in Magic cards where you don't bring out miniatures just to see two grizzly bears fight.
TotM is recommended by the 5e team, but I'm defining things more strictly and extremely than they do because I need that strictness and clarity.
Won't the game lose all the interesting tactics?
- Most of the fighting rules in the game are about which mêlée group you're in, if any, and moving in and out of them or preventing that. All of those rules are still in effect.
- Also using things like furniture, doors etc, that's gonna stay in there for sure. I want to crank this up even more, endless pits, magnetic lakes, other cool things we could put into the scene, I'd like to learn to get better at this when making homebrew dungeons.
- Also we can switch into Volleys or Chases when we need to.
- Also we were playing this style for months until the chase fight against the decayer. Which was an awesome fight yes but it was exhausting also.
I think guerilla fights like the spiders in the mines, they could also still work well. It's going to be awesome
What happens if I fly out of reach, or run out of reach?
- If you want to flee and they want to follow, we'll go to a Chase.
- If you can fly / run to a place where you can hit them and they can't hit you, we can still be in an ordinary fight except you can't be hit or reached.
- If you can fly / run to a place where they might shoot or reach you at you depending on the range maybe sorta -- that could be a good time to go to Volley.
Spell Targets
The question of how many targets a spell can hit, that's not a question of range so it's the same for all three types of fight.
I really love the "Targets in Areas of Effects" rule, it made my life as DM a lot simpler and the amount of description mistakes I make lower.
The spells are as if they were written with a number of targets instead of an area. The area becomes more of a flavor thing.
The number is the area divided by 5 rounded up, except lines (divided by 30) or cones (divided by 10).
The amount of targets can go +1d3 or -1d3 if it's very tight or very wide.
Comments
Please don't get angry if you don't like it. We can talk about it
I wanted to get this written down so it's not something that changes from moment to moment. Clear rules are the Spike's best friend after all.
Mina spelares kommentar var "men är det inte typ så vi redan kört?" och jag sade "ja men jag ville ha det nerskrivet." Och sen körde vi så och det blev ett jättebra verktyg. Att kunna svara "nja, vi är i en ordinary fight just nu, så..." på nån centimeterfråga.