Eon The baggage of Eon IV (and V)

[Yahuna]

I am in several rpg discussion groups in different social platforms, often when I bring the topic of Eon IV I receive comments by Swedish people showing a strong resistance against Eon. When asking, everything seems to originate due previous editions of Eon, and it is people that has not even played Eon IV.

I do not pretend to know the Swedish rpg scene, and I have no clue how good does Eon sell in Sweden as compared to other rpgs, but as an outsider that has played many rpgs, I can say that Eon IV is a very good system, especially for Dark Fantasy, that allows for both, fast and detailed game styles, and it has a rich setting. So I wonder if Eon would sell better outside of Sweden precisely because it does not have the baggage of its previous editions.

Thoughts?

 

[Lanina]

I do think you are correct in that there are major changes between Eon IV and earlier editions. There are die-hard fans of the older editions who seem uninterested in moving to the new editions, and there are some people (like me!) who tried 2nd/3rd editions without ever liking it but who really enjoyed Eon IV. And yes, I've met people who remember the old editions and are impressed/terrified/concerned when I say that I GM Eon, and say they never would try it. And there are fans who've been there since the 90s and keep on buying everything, including the editions and add-ons.

But I don't think Eon would sell that much better in English. Some reasons:

- I think a major part of the sales in Sweden come from old fans. And international edition wouldn't be able to rely on this. Not scaring off people with bad experiences of the earlier editions would perhaps cancel this out, so I think the numbers would be pretty much the same.
- Larger audience if selling internationally in English, sure. But the competition with English-language RPGs is fierce. A difficult task to get attention.
- Recent years there is a trend towards either streamlined, rules-lite games with fast pacing (different PBA games, YZE) or to release new settings as D&D compatible materials. Eon fits neither.

I wonder if an interesting, but difficult, move would be to try and get Eon translated into another language that isn't English, and reach another local market? Maybe Sweden is unique in having such an active RPG scene. But, how would Eon work translated into French, Polish, Portuguese, Spanish? Would there be an audience for that, perhaps people who would prefer a rpg book written in their own language rather than English?

 

[Swedish Chef]

I think there Is a market for Eon in English. Helmgast has a good reputation abroad with Kult and Troubleshooters. The big problem is how to present the world in one book. I believe that an English launch would have to be made like Eon 4, focusing on one part of Mundana. But who knows.

Regarding the reputation from earlier versions is the Eon is rules heavy game, with advanced rules. This is still somewhat true, thought Eon 5 is actually less rules heavy than DnD in many ways. This trend of rules light games is kind of true, bu still the biggest fantasy roleplaying game in the world is not rules light.

 

[Zeedox]

I am in several rpg discussion groups in different social platforms, often when I bring the topic of Eon IV I receive comments by Swedish people showing a strong resistance against Eon. When asking, everything seems to originate due previous editions of Eon, and it is people that has not even played Eon IV.

I do not pretend to know the Swedish rpg scene, and I have no clue how good does Eon sell in Sweden as compared to other rpgs, but as an outsider that has played many rpgs, I can say that Eon IV is a very good system, especially for Dark Fantasy, that allows for both, fast and detailed game styles, and it has a rich setting. So I wonder if Eon would sell better outside of Sweden precisely because it does not have the baggage of its previous editions.

Thoughts?

My impression and experience matches yours.

I've recently tried to GM Eon at some conventions here in Sweden: in one of them I didn't get enough players to form a group, and in the other I had a really hard time and some people I asked seemed actively uninterested, but I were lucky to find a few great players, who joined despite initial misgivings. And in general, when I talk to other RPG nerds about the fact that I'm playing Eon, my impression is that a lot of people shy back.

 

[Arrikir]

I played a bit of Eon III when I was new with Role playing games. I liked it, but it was a very crunchy game, and back then I had trouble getting a proper feeling for the different cultures and countries. I ended up playing Characters from Soldarn due to then being closest to a classical medieval culture, and i felt that i could understand the basics of how to play that.

My friend who introduced me to Eon, bought Eon IV and he did not like it.
I think he disliked the change in system and I know he hated the focus on Jargien, something I somewhat agree on. My opinion is that Jargien is one of the least interesting places of the setting, but I do think that having one place described in detail helps new people into the game.
So my friends opinions made him not pitching the game to me and out group, and thus I played other games that filled the fantasy "niche" for me.

I do think Mundana is a great setting, and I absolutely think Eon has a unique niche that it can fill, but I also think that rules heavy systems are difficult to get into and may be a obstacle for new players .

With that said, I am looking forward to seeing what comes next for Eon and will be looking at Eon V

 

[Zeedox]

- Larger audience if selling internationally in English, sure. But the competition with English-language RPGs is fierce. A difficult task to get attention.
- Recent years there is a trend towards either streamlined, rules-lite games with fast pacing (different PBA games, YZE) or to release new settings as D&D compatible materials. Eon fits neither.

There's also quite a few crunchy/heavy games coming out and doing pretty well. I think the bigger issue is that it's fairly unconnected to any existing franchise or fanbase, which is important for wide success, but even more importantly... what's Eon's "Unique Selling Point" / USP? Lots of games come out these days with very focused mechanics & settings to sell a specific experience, or at least tell the players what kind of game it is. Eon is a bit broad in that regard - at least I have trouble coming up with an elevator pitch about what you do. You can have lots of interesting adventures for sure, but there's not a specific focus to it.

And a game with a more weird and extraordinary setting might have an easier time making headlines, so you're probably right that a translation focusing on a specific area of the world, and making that feel very unique and interesting, could be good for sales.

Though from what I've read of Eon V, it feels like it gives more guidance to the GM and improves on a lot of these areas, so maybe a slow burn translation could be possible?

 

[Zeedox]

I think he disliked the change in system and I know he hated the focus on Jargien, something I somewhat agree on. My opinion is that Jargien is one of the least interesting places of the setting, but I do think that having one place described in detail helps new people into the game.

Which places do you prefer? I've always had trouble with Asharien & Soldarn myself, since they seems so very "standard", and the focus on Jargien was very much what revived Eon for me.

 

[Arrikir]

Which places do you prefer? I've always had trouble with Asharien & Soldarn myself, since they seems so very "standard", and the focus on Jargien was very much what revived Eon for me.

I think the focus on a specific region is in it self a good thing, it gives the players context and something to ground their characters around. My problem with Jargien is its religious fanaticism. In a polytheistic setting, the monotheistic church that burns people at the "cross" oss less appealing to me. I also started playing Eon at the time when I wanted "standard fantasy" and I think i would appreciate many other cultures in Mundana better if i played Eon today

 

[Gerkub]

what's Eon's "Unique Selling Point" / USP?

I’m quite a newcomer to EON, I’ve only played V, but I am smitten. It’s a brilliant game where the world feels huge and teeming with life, with different cultures and beautiful details.

So in a sense it’s very different to these more streamlined games (which I can also appreciate), and for me that’s appealing! It’s what makes it unique.

Lots of games come out these days with very focused mechanics & settings to sell a specific experience

V is in my opinion one of the best Swedish games I’ve come across, and I absolutely think it can have newcomer appeal for the right type of player.

 

[Zeedox]

I think the focus on a specific region is in it self a good thing, it gives the players context and something to ground their characters around. My problem with Jargien is its religious fanaticism. In a polytheistic setting, the monotheistic church that burns people at the "cross" oss less appealing to me. I also started playing Eon at the time when I wanted "standard fantasy" and I think i would appreciate many other cultures in Mundana better if i played Eon today

Great point actually! In a game where a key point is all the different religions, cultures, and a fun magic system, playing in Jargien puts a serious damper on a lot of character concepts. It can be fun to play a magician that has to hide from the inquisition, and they make excellent bad guys (and main characters!), but makes certain stuff less easy.

One thing I do like about it though, is that it encourages multiple viewpoints to the Daak church. PC groups where everyone has their own separate religion tends to make each of the be more shallow, compared to if everyone has the same and so can share more facets.

 

[Svarte Faraonen]

Great point actually! In a game where a key point is all the different religions, cultures, and a fun magic system, playing in Jargien puts a serious damper on a lot of character concepts. It can be fun to play a magician that has to hide from the inquisition, and they make excellent bad guys (and main characters!), but makes certain stuff less easy.

One thing I do like about it though, is that it encourages multiple viewpoints to the Daak church. PC groups where everyone has their own separate religion tends to make each of the be more shallow, compared to if everyone has the same and so can share more facets.

It really depends on what sort of game you want, sort of. Asharien has a culture which makes it easy to be a masterless adventurer, as well as populations of all the major non-human races which makes it very convenient for "traditional fantasy adventuring". Jargien has opportunities to interact more with politics and religion (a lot of people seem really intent on making the inquisition omnipresent and paranoia-inducing). There's also loads of other areas, ranging from ones that are quite "standard" to ones that take their inspirations from cultures that are not usually represented in classical fantasy. Including all of these things in the same game can easily make things overwhelming, so we try to stress that you really don't need to learn everything to begin with.

 

[Yahuna]

I already mentioned that Mundana is agreat setting, very rich. So the thing will be, as it has been mentioned, how to sell the product. I don't know about marketing, but if games like Symbaroum, Forbidden lands and Dragon bane have made it to the English market with relative success, I don't see why Eon IV /V could not.

There are a lot of good "RPG influencers" on youtube to put a great review on this game for example.

As for the crunchines of Eon rules. We will disagree here, but for me Eon IV does not fall in general on the "crunchy" side, and when it does, it does it very good. Let me explain:

Eon IV has a very streamlined and rules light core system. Roll Xd6, 6s explode and get above a certain difficulty. Every 5 above the difficulty means you get a better success. That is it, plain and simple. You add to this the Challenge and Conflict rules and you have a fast game that can solve most of situations with no more than these rules (plus the great Focus + Character Traits rules). You want to infiltrate a castle? Let's make it a Challenge, You want to do a ship-to-ship combat? let's make it a Conflict. Awesome and flexible rules.

But yes, Eon has 2 (+1) mini games, Magic and Combat. These two subsystems are crunchy, but let me say that they are hell of a good crunchy system. Magic is flexible and promotes player creativity and improvisation. Combat is brutal, as it should be. Yes, combat takes time, but it is good time, it is tense.
The third mini game would be character creation, which for me is one of the best character creations systems I have ever seen. I cannot say more.

So all in all, I think Eon IV can triumph in a market outside the Swedish market (be it the English, the Spanish, German, whatever), both for its system and for its setting. Probably it fits more an adult audience than a young teenage audience, and I also like this.

 

[Conan]

Parts of Mundana are great (Asharien, Västmark, Takkalor). Other parts are not so great and/or underdeveloped.

Same for the game writ-large.

I wouldn’t want to see a simple translation but rather a new edition based on the Swedish one.

 

[Yahuna]

Parts of Mundana are great (Asharien, Västmark, Takkalor). Other parts are not so great and/or underdeveloped.

Same for the game writ-large.

I wouldn’t want to see a simple translation but rather a new edition based on the Swedish one.

What would you like in this new edition?

 

[Celledor]

Have played Eon for probably more than 25 years now. We have played in many different countries, small adventures and huge ones with each player controlling an entire country. Love the details in the lore and how it feels. For me the rules are better but still feels the same.

Sometimes we have followed the cultures more sometimes less, it depends on the GM. Never felt limited in what type of adventures I want to run.

 

[Conan]

What would you like in this new edition?

I would like to see some fine-tuning. And better illustrations as that has been a constant weak point of the game.

 

[Yahuna]

I would like to see some fine-tuning. And better illustrations as that has been a constant weak point of the game.

If you have the time and the mood, could you expand on the fine-tuning? Which part of the rules you think will benefit from the fine-tuning, and in which direction this fine-tuning has to go?

 

[Otto Boll]

I'd recommend translating much of the lore content at the same time along with any rule books, as that's one of the major selling points of Eon, imo.
Stuff like Codex/Geografica Mundana.

 

[Conan]

If you have the time and the mood, could you expand on the fine-tuning? Which part of the rules you think will benefit from the fine-tuning, and in which direction this fine-tuning has to go?

I don’t have strong objections to the rules as such. However, in earlier editions the combat rules used to be deadlier, which I appreciated.

I think some races are a bit underdeveloped and/or underwhelming such as misslorna. Others, like the dwarfs are a bit too stereotypical.

I would re-do the world with the central focus being on the Asharinna peninsula and the surrounding areas. I would remove Soldarn completely but keep Cirmena(?), Drunok, Cirefalien and Takkalor. I would keep descriptions on Jargien, Thalamurr and Consabet to a minimum to allow those regions to be developed further in coming expansions. People say Thalamurr is pretty great but Jargien and Consaber could definitely do with some re-working.

 

[Svarte Faraonen]

Others, like the dwarfs are a bit too stereotypical.

As someone who thinks about writing a new dwarf book, I hope to be able to nuance them a bit more.