Nekromanti 13th Age

anth

Vetefan
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Har någon här spelat 13th Age och har några åsikter om det?
Eftersom jag läst igenom reglerna är jag speciellt intresserad om saker som överraskade (både positivt och negativt) under spel som inte framkommer så tydligt om man bara läser spelet.
 
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Jag har skummat igenom det. Det verkar vara ett hyggligt solitt system i D&D tappningen. Jag gillar deras bakgrundskapitel och ikonerna men jag brukar luta mer åt att försöka inkorporera element av Dungeon Worlds spelledar teknik istället. Hade jag inte dragit igång en Pathfinder kampanj nyligen hade det nog blivit 13th Age.

För att bidra lite så hoppar jag på med ytterligare en fråga. Ni som spelat 13th Age, hjälpte fokuset på bakgrund i karaktärsskapandet att få in det sen in-game?
 

IcarusDream

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13th Age är min favorit av 3.x-deviraten. Strömlinjeformat, snabbspelat, systemet med att SL bestämmer när man levlar istället för att behöva räkna XP är fantatiskt.
 

anth

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anth;n180605 said:
Haha :)
Själv ser jag det som ett DnD4-derivat.
För säkerhets skull - så ingen missuppfattar.

13th Age är skapat av Jonathan Tweet som var med och gjorde DnD3 och Rob Heinsoo som var med och gjorde DnD4 - så 13th Age känns som en syntes mellan DnD3 och DnD4 plus en dos indie.

Jag tyckte det var kul att IcarusDream tyckte att det kändes som ett DnD3-derivat, medan jag tycker att det är ett DnD4-derivat.
 

Jarl

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Jag håller på och läser igenom det. Eftersom jag gillade 4E så känns det klart lovande. Dock har jag två problem:

* Språket. Så jäkla informellt och tjommigt, förtar mycket av stämningen. Men det går väl att tänka bort iofs.
* Väldigt stora siffror. Det verkar bli stora tal för allt rätt fort. Massor av hitpoints. Man gör sin level x skadetärning. Orkar man räkna allt detta hela tiden? Kändes väldigt avtändande att random orcher har 30-40hp.

Vad säger ni som spelat det, funkar det i praktiken?
 
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Snubblade över en väldigt intressant post om 13th Ages bakgrundssystem. Vill klargöra att detta är INTE jag som skrivit utan en användare som kallas Mystic Mongol på Something Awful-forumet. Cred where cred is due and all that.

[h=4]Mystic Mongol on Backgrounds posted:[/h]
Right, so one repeating meme regarding 13th age is that the background system means some powerful backgrounds, like, say, "Batman +5," are universally applicable, while other backgrounds, like "Beach Volleyball +5," are not. We can argue all day about how Beach Volleyball experience can be surprisingly useful in a variety of situations, but it's basically irrefutable that Batman is useful in more of them, and the few gaps in batmanning can be made up for with the character's other background, "Billionaire Playboy +3." This is considered a bad thing.

But "Fail Forwards" skill use (Page reference: 42) means that being more likely to succeed is not advantageous.

Let's look at two theoretical parties. The first stars alpha player Wruce Bwane, who had the backgrounds, "Batman +5" and "Billionaire Playboy +3," is part of a team of PCs who all have similarly justice league themed backgrounds. They have powerful, universally applicable backgrounds that synergize well with their stats. The second team's alpha player is Kele the Bird, an elf who used to be a bird, who has the backgrounds "Bird +5," "Fortune loves an Idiot +1," and "Slept through his monastic training +2." He's good at perching on objects and cheating on tests and not much else--while you could say his background as a wild animal makes him perceptive he doesn't have a high wisdom so at the table there's not much he actually rolls a high number for. The rest of his party are musicians, chumps, and drunks. They are given similar premises for adventure.

Wruce Bwane is very concerned that the Police Commissioner's daughter has been captured. By rolling Batman he finds the discarded crossbow bolt---most of them had been retrieved, but the head of one had broken off in a floorboard. His wizard buddy, the Emerald Lantern, uses his broadly defined arcane abilities to find the original forge the crossbow head was made in. It's in the private forge of the Badwrongfun Estate, a troublesome aristocratic family with a small army of guards and a ball later tonight. Fortunately a successful "Billionaire Playboy" roll gets Wruce and his personal servants invitations to the ball. Inside a few successful rolls (and one notable failure) gets them inside and in the basement, but tips off the head of security, who jumps the party in the basement, in a dramatic level 2 scuffle where everyone themes their actions to be as quiet as possible, occasionally making rolls to dive across the room and catch a falling vase so as not to disturb the party upstairs.

Kele the Bird is very concerned that the Police Commissioner's daughter was stolen by grackles, even though the commissioner says no one knows who kidnapped her--it's always grackles! You can't trust them. He rolls against Bird to find the nearest Grackle Triad, which is apparently a thing that exists, and the GM says it's in the Badwrongfun Estate, a troublesome aristocratic family with a small army of guards and a ball later tonight. One of his allies tries to get them jobs in the catering group, but after getting in the party quickly flubs a series of catering related checks and are escorted to the back door to get thrown out on their asses. Furious, Kele knocks out the chefs as "miserable grackle allies" and the party is quickly set upon a group of house guards. A level 2 scuffle erupts, where everyone modifies their actions to toss guards into pots or to upend cakes on their heads.

Meanwhile, Wruce Bwane finishes his fight--because they were silent, no other guards come running. In fact, no one knows there's trouble until he dangles the head of security out of an attic window with a rope tied around his foot and demands to know just what Lord Badwrongfun has to do with it. The guards say they had nothing to do with it--the crossbow bolt was probably taken by those lycanthrope bandits which attacked last week, a scurrilous bunch. A party member uses her background as an Amazon Princess to magically determine that the guards are telling the truth, and that the Badwrongfun Estate was not directly involved. Wruce leaves the head of security dangling out the window to draw attention as his team escapes out the window. A few Batman checks later and they've shaken down the local thugs and found out the gang of terrifying were-creatures is lurking in an abandoned temple. An icon roll of the priestess means the party knows a secret tunnel in and they ambush the creatures after spying on a ritual--some sort of foul prayer to a giant, monstrous, shapeshifting demiurge. And there's the captured daughter, on the dias and about to be sacrificed! The party leaps from the shadows and attacks. It's a desperate struggle against a level 3 fight, a series of fights against humanoids, each of whom turns into a different kind of animal! There's plenty of ritual urns to upturn and magical effects to accidentally trigger as they fight.

Kele the Bird and company wins the fight against the guard, but dozens more of them are totes coming! The party runs for it, using their goofy backgrounds to blunder through the city streets, making "Drunk" rolls to burst through breweries, a negative relationship with the Elf Queen to steal an elvish horse from those asshole elvish merchants, and a roll of "Arcane College Dropout" to quickly join and blend into a game of hackey-sack. Burning with fury, Kele starts talking with the birds around time, using his background to find out just what the grackles are up to. As per tradition, the GM gives the rest of the party no indication that Kele can (or can't) talk to birds, but people see him talking to animals and assume he's one of those dangerous lycanthropes. Word gets back to the thieves, and they investigate the new, unaffiliated were-bird. They approach the party, are disheartened to learn none of them are lyanthropes, and try to kill them to keep their secret. It's a desperate struggle against a level 3 fight, a series of fights against humanoids, each of whom turns into a different kind of animal! It's a ugly, messy fight in the muddy back alleys of the city, with a break every two rounds (lowering the escalation die each break) as everyone leans against a wall and whistles innocently whenever the city guard walk past.

Back to Wruce Bwane, who corners the last remaining lycanthrope, a were-snake shaman. The shaman whips out a sacrificial knife and plunges it into his own chest--they may have stopped the ritual, but dark lord Horribus Unpronouncibliliux will arise nevertheless! The building crumbles as a huge shadowy presence bursts up from the ground, sundering walls as it grows. The party moves quickly to use their skills to evacuate the surrounding neighborhood, saving the lives of countless poor or dispossessed citizens before the monster solidifies into a terrifying mass of flesh and claw. It's time for the final showdown against a triple strength monster and his two remaining lycanthrope minions, and every round the demon turns into a different form, with different defenses, attacks, and special qualities. Can the party stay focused and execute a plan with the combat being completely different each round!? The city is at stake!

Kele the Bird is enjoying considerably less success. They've fought off the lycanthropes, but a few escape. Chasing them, the party finds itself outside a small building, an abandoned church completely haunted by an enormous flock of grackles. Is this the source of the evil? The party makes a few rolls to try to sneak up on the building without attracting the attention of any avian foes, but their attempt is abruptly stopped when the building crumbles as a huge shadowy presence bursts up from the ground, sundering walls as it grows. The party moves quickly to use their skills to evacuate the surrounding neighborhood, saving the lives of countless poor or dispossessed citizens before the monster solidifies into a terrifying mass of flesh and claw. It's dark lord Horribus Unpronouncibliliux, dark lord of the grackles! It's time for the final showdown against a triple strength monster and his two remaining lycanthrope minions, and every round the demon turns into a different form, with different defenses, attacks, and special qualities. Can the party stay focused and execute a plan with the combat being completely different each round!? The city is at stake!

Wruce Bwane and company defeats the were-demon, saving the girl and the city. He and his allies return to the captain of the guard in triumph, return the daughter to her loving father, and are buried in praise. They are given a level appropriate treasure with a quirk themed to the city guard and the key to the city. Everyone is super impressed with them because they're so rad and awesome.

Kele the Bird and company defeats the grackle lord, saving the city. They find a level appropriate challenge in the claws of one of the lycanthrope minions of the grackle lord, presumably the leader of the foul grackle cult. It has some kind of wild beast quirk to it. Returning to the commissioner in triumph, they announce proudly that the Grackles have been defeated, one and all. "And my daughter?" the commisioner says, worried.

"Oh, right, her." Kele looks sad. "I think grackles ate her!"

"Get the hell out of my office."



So we've got two parties. One of them passed nearly every background check with awesome backgrounds that do a lot, and one failed nearly every check with terrible background bad at nearly everything, and yet each of them had a level 2 fight, a level 3 fight, a level 3 fight with unusually few monsers, and a single treasure drop. The only real difference is that the player playing Batman went around looking cool and doing cool things, while the player playing a Bird went around looking dumb and doing goofy things. And a player who plays batman probably wants to look cool, and a player playing a bird probably wants to do goofy things. Which means the background mechanics are working as intended, and that players are empowered to choose the game they want to play.


There's only two questions left.

Is my background too powerful or useful? Only if it annoys the other players.

Is my background too weak or useless? Only if it annoys the other players.​
 

anth

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Jarl;n180629 said:
Jag håller på och läser igenom det. Eftersom jag gillade 4E så känns det klart lovande. Dock har jag två problem:

* Språket. Så jäkla informellt och tjommigt, förtar mycket av stämningen. Men det går väl att tänka bort iofs.
* Väldigt stora siffror. Det verkar bli stora tal för allt rätt fort. Massor av hitpoints. Man gör sin level x skadetärning. Orkar man räkna allt detta hela tiden? Kändes väldigt avtändande att random orcher har 30-40hp.
När det gäller språket tror jag de vill förmedla att de inte längre är ansiktslösa spökskrivare för stora stygga WotC, utan numera arbetar direkt för oss och med oss rollspelare. De vill förmedla en familjär känsla av att de är våra vänner. Men jag kan hålla med om att språket ibland blir lite för mycket.

När det gäller stora siffror var min första tanke att använda husregeln från DnD4 där man halverar monsternas hp och dubblar deras skada (så alla strider går dubbelt så snabbt) - men då försvinner lite av tanken med escalation die.
Men ja, jag skulle gärna sett att de redan från början halverade allt som har med hp att göra (hp/skada/healing för både rollpersoner och monster). När en genomsnittlig kobold har 30 hp är något allvarligt fel, i OSR har en kobold 3 hp.
Sedan ökar hp exponentiellt, en fighter som stiger från level 1 till level 2 får c:a 10 hp till, men från level 7 till level 8 får hen minst 40 hp mer. Det känns löjligt.
Och det är samma sak när man ska slå skada på monsterna. T.ex. gör en level 5 magiker c:a 10d10 i skada med sina spells. Jag har alltid sagt att jag hatar tärningspölar, utom för fireball, men det känns bara löjligt att behöva rulla 10d10. Vem har ens 10 st d10:or? Det är väl bara Exalted-spelare? För att inte tala om 8d12 i skada.

Jag måste säga att att DnD5s lösning med Boudned Accuracy fungerar mycket bra, medan 13th Age verkar gå åt andra hållet. Det verkar därför omöjligt att ha en grupp där rollpersonerna har olika levels i 13th Age - just för att skillnaden mellan olika levels blir för stor.
 
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