Nekromanti Kategorisering av fokus för ett spel eller äventyr
- Thread starter luddwig
- Start date
Strid tänker jag absolut bör kunna vara ett fokus. Det finns gott om rollspel som i princip bygger sina äventyr som strid-mellanspel-strid-mellanspel-strid, typ.
Sen tänker jag att många äventyr har en kombination av elementen, såklart. Få äventyr har BARA pussel (chiffer, vilken spak man ska dra i), strid, mysterie/detektivlösande eller så.
Jag brukar fundera mycket kring vad man GÖR. Dvs vad gör spelarna? Man kan ha intrigfokuserat där man pratar mycket med SLP:er, mysterie/detektivlösande där man hittar och fogar samman ledtrådar, man kan ha stridsfokuserat där man... slåss.
Utfortskningsfokuserat, vad gör man då? Hur går det till kring spelbordet, liksom?
Sen tänker jag att många äventyr har en kombination av elementen, såklart. Få äventyr har BARA pussel (chiffer, vilken spak man ska dra i), strid, mysterie/detektivlösande eller så.
Jag brukar fundera mycket kring vad man GÖR. Dvs vad gör spelarna? Man kan ha intrigfokuserat där man pratar mycket med SLP:er, mysterie/detektivlösande där man hittar och fogar samman ledtrådar, man kan ha stridsfokuserat där man... slåss.
Utfortskningsfokuserat, vad gör man då? Hur går det till kring spelbordet, liksom?
luddwig
Lawful evil
- Joined
- 30 Jan 2013
- Messages
- 5,843
Strid är helt klart ett fokus och intrig lika så.
Pussel tänker jag på som något smalare. Att desarmera fällor genom att dra i rätt spakar kan t.ex. vara ett moment i utforskandet av katakomberna under den gamla katedralen.
Med utforskande som fokus menar jag närmast att söka igenom något rent fysiskt, t.ex. ett rymdskepp eller ett grottsystem.
Interaktioner mellan RP/SLP tänker jag på som sidoordnat. Den interaktionen är således inte fokus i sig utan kan vara ett viktigt inslag i ett spel med intrig som fokus, eller en del i hur man gillar att spela oavsett fokus.
Så, Genesis (eller någon annan som har lust att svara), vad är bleed?
Pussel tänker jag på som något smalare. Att desarmera fällor genom att dra i rätt spakar kan t.ex. vara ett moment i utforskandet av katakomberna under den gamla katedralen.
Med utforskande som fokus menar jag närmast att söka igenom något rent fysiskt, t.ex. ett rymdskepp eller ett grottsystem.
Interaktioner mellan RP/SLP tänker jag på som sidoordnat. Den interaktionen är således inte fokus i sig utan kan vara ett viktigt inslag i ett spel med intrig som fokus, eller en del i hur man gillar att spela oavsett fokus.
Så, Genesis (eller någon annan som har lust att svara), vad är bleed?
Bleed är överföringen av känslor mellan spelare och rollperson. Så att rollpersonens känslor blöder över till spelaren, eller att spelarens känslor färgar rollpersonens agerande (typ rollpersonen reagerar starkt när hens vän får cancer eftersom spelarens vän dött i cancer).
DeBracy
Eventuellt helt fantastisk
- Joined
- 21 May 2003
- Messages
- 5,857
"Hur stort är rummet sa du? Staty i mitten... och två dörrar i östra väggen? Nähä, en i öster och en i väster, okej." *suddar och uppdaterar kartan*krank;n136412 said:
Typ så kan det låta när vi spelar OSR/gamm-D&D. Att rita karta på rutat papper är en stapelvara. När man hunnit utforska en del och ritat upp det brukar man kunna göra lite gissningar om att det borde finnas en gång hitåt eller ditåt, eller att det nog kan finnas ett hemligt rum mellan de där två gångarna man gått i.
Kanske skapande i någon form. Rollpersoner som bygger ett företag eller en nation. Innehåller förmodligen bitar av många kategorier, men borde även vara en egen.
Om strid och utforskning är kategorier så borde även resurshantering få vara med. Titta bara på Arken i MÅ0, där är resurshantering draget till sin spets.
Vara häftig! kanske säger sig självt, men det förtjänar ett omnämnande. Att rollpersonerna är häftiga och blir häftigare är definitivt ett fokus i många spel. Exalted, Nobilis och DnD för att nämna tre.
Om strid och utforskning är kategorier så borde även resurshantering få vara med. Titta bara på Arken i MÅ0, där är resurshantering draget till sin spets.
Vara häftig! kanske säger sig självt, men det förtjänar ett omnämnande. Att rollpersonerna är häftiga och blir häftigare är definitivt ett fokus i många spel. Exalted, Nobilis och DnD för att nämna tre.
luddwig
Lawful evil
- Joined
- 30 Jan 2013
- Messages
- 5,843
Skapande låter som ett rimligt fokus.
Resurshantering tänker jag på som något underordnat men det är klart att det kan gå att prioritera upp. Jag har aldrig spelat MÅ0 men kan tänka mig att resurshantering där blir en viktig del i gruppens överlevnad.
Att vara häftig har jag nog heller aldrig tänkt på som ett fokus men det är klart att det kan vara det, jag har bara aldrig spelat så utan mer tänkt på det som personlig utveckling på ett regelmässigt (bättre egenskaper/färdigheter) eller karaktärsmässigt (rollpersonens karaktär förändras/fördjupas) plan.
Resurshantering tänker jag på som något underordnat men det är klart att det kan gå att prioritera upp. Jag har aldrig spelat MÅ0 men kan tänka mig att resurshantering där blir en viktig del i gruppens överlevnad.
Att vara häftig har jag nog heller aldrig tänkt på som ett fokus men det är klart att det kan vara det, jag har bara aldrig spelat så utan mer tänkt på det som personlig utveckling på ett regelmässigt (bättre egenskaper/färdigheter) eller karaktärsmässigt (rollpersonens karaktär förändras/fördjupas) plan.
Också: Obligatorisk citering av Levi Kornelsens "Enjoyments":
Inte helt vad du frågar efter, men tangentiellt relevant?
Agon
"I beat you!"
This is the pleasure of beating someone else. It does not necessarily require that the process be challenging or interesting - the thrill here is being better, even if only for a moment, than another actual person. Many gamers are very wary of it, because hard pursuit can turn ugly fast without a permission structure to say when it's okay (such as in Amber, Capes, or Rune).
Alea
"I won! I won!"
The thrill of gambling and winning, straight out. Alea requires randomness which can be won or lost in the perception of the player. Alea is common almost across the board; it's one of the reasons that diceless games often don't do that well.
Catharsis
"That was... intense."
There’s a feeling of release that follows an intense or overwhelming experience. This may (or may not) be tied to character-identification by the player. Catharsis does not necessarily require a tragic or traumatic experience, but does require emotional content and investment. And, yes, there’s argument about whether catharsis (especially the strong-form versions, which *do* hit on the tragic or traumatic buttons) is a good idea in RPGs. That's an argument for a whole other day, if ever.
Closure
"And that's how it happened."
The feeling that there is nothing more that need be done, and that the thing is finished, is something many people enjoy out of games. Contentment requires closure and resolution to whatever the matter at hand may be. This does require that either in-character goals and end points be clear, or that everyone is actively listening and aware of the desire.
Emergence
"Hey, these go together!
The thrill of having a singular thing come together from apparently disparate pieces. In RPGs, this usually means that the fictional events of play come together into some roughly story- or plot-like fashion.
Expression
"My creativity matters!"
This one is tricky, because it covers a lot of ground. Some people want to create bits of world that surround a character, or create the world itself, or write fiction based on the game, or you-name-it. Each kind of creative impulse comes with different preferences on using the modes of play.
Fiero
"I have overcome!"
The feeling of winning, of defeating a challenge, or overcoming adversity. Fiero is lifted from serious game-study, and included here because I think it sounds awesome. Fiero. Go on, say it out loud. Anyhow, people looking for that feeling are on the lookout for adversity – and they tend to want adversity where they can be partisan for their characters and the GM is actually playing against them a bit. Fiero doesn't come easily if the challenge isn't challenging.
Humour
"*Gigglegiggle*thud*"
Games can be played for laughs, and often are. Amusement is served by all four of the modes. Notably, a player that really pushes for it will often end up pushing for collaboration, even to the point of attempting to dictate the actions of other player characters, because some of the humor that comes to mind most easily can step outside the specific boundaries of authority the other modes often lay down.
Kairosis
"Llew gets back up again. And he knows who he is, now."
This is the enjoyment of seeing (or experiencing, vicariously), the fullfillment or change that is natural to a character as pressure is exerted on them. Much of the time, this is about the character becoming who they 'ought' to be.
Kenosis
"I'm in the groove."
Some players seek the feeling of being deeply engaged in their character or in the fiction as a whole. Players looking for this (especially really serious kinds) often aim for a lot of characterisation. They also often (but not always) want to avoid types of action that will pull them “out of the groove”. Flow states are related to this; some are about getting deep into character, some are about other things.
Ludus
"I am the master of the rules!"
Some people also take their fun a little more seriously. The rules-tinkerers and the optimal-builders are chasing the fun that often sits on the opposite end of the spectrum from the people looking for paidial fun. To someone looking for ludus fun, the rules are the game, a toy that the group is here to play with. Wherever the mechanics of the game are, whatever modes they attach to, that’s where ludus-seekers go.
Naches
"You've come a long way, John."
This is a social pleasure - a parent seeing their child doing well feels naches. Taking pride in the accomplishements of others, sometimes in the form of "I taught them that!" is naches. Teaching people to play a game and seeing them love it is naches.
Participation
"I'm part of this!"
For most gamers, the game and the acts that make up “playing the game” are a way of being social. People looking to get especially significant gameplay-as-socialisation often try to match their other goals with the rest of the group. Participation is socialisation chanelled into play.
Paidia
"What would be awesome, right now?"
Paidia is free-wheeling player fun, where rules are a convenience. Players looking to get some Paidial fun would prefer winging the rules-calls, going for whatever feels right at the moment. Novelty and wonder are often, but not always, associated with this goal. Off-the-cuff characters are sometimes signals that someone wants this kind of fun.
Sensory Enjoyment
"There's something satisfying about a big handful of dice."
Miniatures, maps, game book illustration, tokens, and dice are all visual and tactile things that are enjoyable about RPGs. I haven’t yet met anyone that considers these things their number one priority, but they show up on a lot of lists.
Facsimile
"That's exactly it!"
Successful portrayal of a pursued idiom. E.g., a player saying a particularly Star Wars-appropriate thing in a Star Wars game ("I discovered the illusion by looking to the Force; the senses can be deceived."), or a group resolving a mission in said game in a particularly Star Wars-appropriate fashion (Good beats evil, the protagonists grow, not quite happily-ever-after but close enough to end on).
Protection
"This will not be broken!"
Defending a game's logic, function, continuity, or aesthetic from threatened violation. Example: "If trolls in this game are incinerated by sunlight, how did the troll statue get from A to B without any tracks heading off for shade?" GM looks uncomfortable, obviously having erred. "Maybe traveling trolls carry a shade tent with them so they can march during daytime." GM brightens at this player suggestion, and says, "You did notice some tiny lines in the dirt, which could be the dragging of tent stakes..."
I also wonder if the next two are covered by Kenosis. What do you think?
Emotional Displacement
Actually feeling what your character feels in their current situation. I think there's some appeal to doing this regardless of exactly which emotion the character is experiencing, but I could be wrong.
Sensory Displacement
Achieving a degree of vivid imagination of the setting, in which you can almost see/hear/smell/taste/feel the setting. Again, I suspect there's an appeal to doing this regardless of what the setting holds, but maybe not.
What the hell, here's Schadenfreude, for those unfamiliar with it (I think everyone knows what Venting means):
Schadenfreude
"Ha ha!" (as in Nelson from the Simpsons)
Enjoying the misery of others. I don't see how enjoying deep and sincere misery could be acceptable in RPGs, but a little bit of chortling at someone else's tragic die roll or some such seems to play just fine.
"I beat you!"
This is the pleasure of beating someone else. It does not necessarily require that the process be challenging or interesting - the thrill here is being better, even if only for a moment, than another actual person. Many gamers are very wary of it, because hard pursuit can turn ugly fast without a permission structure to say when it's okay (such as in Amber, Capes, or Rune).
Alea
"I won! I won!"
The thrill of gambling and winning, straight out. Alea requires randomness which can be won or lost in the perception of the player. Alea is common almost across the board; it's one of the reasons that diceless games often don't do that well.
Catharsis
"That was... intense."
There’s a feeling of release that follows an intense or overwhelming experience. This may (or may not) be tied to character-identification by the player. Catharsis does not necessarily require a tragic or traumatic experience, but does require emotional content and investment. And, yes, there’s argument about whether catharsis (especially the strong-form versions, which *do* hit on the tragic or traumatic buttons) is a good idea in RPGs. That's an argument for a whole other day, if ever.
Closure
"And that's how it happened."
The feeling that there is nothing more that need be done, and that the thing is finished, is something many people enjoy out of games. Contentment requires closure and resolution to whatever the matter at hand may be. This does require that either in-character goals and end points be clear, or that everyone is actively listening and aware of the desire.
Emergence
"Hey, these go together!
The thrill of having a singular thing come together from apparently disparate pieces. In RPGs, this usually means that the fictional events of play come together into some roughly story- or plot-like fashion.
Expression
"My creativity matters!"
This one is tricky, because it covers a lot of ground. Some people want to create bits of world that surround a character, or create the world itself, or write fiction based on the game, or you-name-it. Each kind of creative impulse comes with different preferences on using the modes of play.
Fiero
"I have overcome!"
The feeling of winning, of defeating a challenge, or overcoming adversity. Fiero is lifted from serious game-study, and included here because I think it sounds awesome. Fiero. Go on, say it out loud. Anyhow, people looking for that feeling are on the lookout for adversity – and they tend to want adversity where they can be partisan for their characters and the GM is actually playing against them a bit. Fiero doesn't come easily if the challenge isn't challenging.
Humour
"*Gigglegiggle*thud*"
Games can be played for laughs, and often are. Amusement is served by all four of the modes. Notably, a player that really pushes for it will often end up pushing for collaboration, even to the point of attempting to dictate the actions of other player characters, because some of the humor that comes to mind most easily can step outside the specific boundaries of authority the other modes often lay down.
Kairosis
"Llew gets back up again. And he knows who he is, now."
This is the enjoyment of seeing (or experiencing, vicariously), the fullfillment or change that is natural to a character as pressure is exerted on them. Much of the time, this is about the character becoming who they 'ought' to be.
Kenosis
"I'm in the groove."
Some players seek the feeling of being deeply engaged in their character or in the fiction as a whole. Players looking for this (especially really serious kinds) often aim for a lot of characterisation. They also often (but not always) want to avoid types of action that will pull them “out of the groove”. Flow states are related to this; some are about getting deep into character, some are about other things.
Ludus
"I am the master of the rules!"
Some people also take their fun a little more seriously. The rules-tinkerers and the optimal-builders are chasing the fun that often sits on the opposite end of the spectrum from the people looking for paidial fun. To someone looking for ludus fun, the rules are the game, a toy that the group is here to play with. Wherever the mechanics of the game are, whatever modes they attach to, that’s where ludus-seekers go.
Naches
"You've come a long way, John."
This is a social pleasure - a parent seeing their child doing well feels naches. Taking pride in the accomplishements of others, sometimes in the form of "I taught them that!" is naches. Teaching people to play a game and seeing them love it is naches.
Participation
"I'm part of this!"
For most gamers, the game and the acts that make up “playing the game” are a way of being social. People looking to get especially significant gameplay-as-socialisation often try to match their other goals with the rest of the group. Participation is socialisation chanelled into play.
Paidia
"What would be awesome, right now?"
Paidia is free-wheeling player fun, where rules are a convenience. Players looking to get some Paidial fun would prefer winging the rules-calls, going for whatever feels right at the moment. Novelty and wonder are often, but not always, associated with this goal. Off-the-cuff characters are sometimes signals that someone wants this kind of fun.
Sensory Enjoyment
"There's something satisfying about a big handful of dice."
Miniatures, maps, game book illustration, tokens, and dice are all visual and tactile things that are enjoyable about RPGs. I haven’t yet met anyone that considers these things their number one priority, but they show up on a lot of lists.
Facsimile
"That's exactly it!"
Successful portrayal of a pursued idiom. E.g., a player saying a particularly Star Wars-appropriate thing in a Star Wars game ("I discovered the illusion by looking to the Force; the senses can be deceived."), or a group resolving a mission in said game in a particularly Star Wars-appropriate fashion (Good beats evil, the protagonists grow, not quite happily-ever-after but close enough to end on).
Protection
"This will not be broken!"
Defending a game's logic, function, continuity, or aesthetic from threatened violation. Example: "If trolls in this game are incinerated by sunlight, how did the troll statue get from A to B without any tracks heading off for shade?" GM looks uncomfortable, obviously having erred. "Maybe traveling trolls carry a shade tent with them so they can march during daytime." GM brightens at this player suggestion, and says, "You did notice some tiny lines in the dirt, which could be the dragging of tent stakes..."
I also wonder if the next two are covered by Kenosis. What do you think?
Emotional Displacement
Actually feeling what your character feels in their current situation. I think there's some appeal to doing this regardless of exactly which emotion the character is experiencing, but I could be wrong.
Sensory Displacement
Achieving a degree of vivid imagination of the setting, in which you can almost see/hear/smell/taste/feel the setting. Again, I suspect there's an appeal to doing this regardless of what the setting holds, but maybe not.
What the hell, here's Schadenfreude, for those unfamiliar with it (I think everyone knows what Venting means):
Schadenfreude
"Ha ha!" (as in Nelson from the Simpsons)
Enjoying the misery of others. I don't see how enjoying deep and sincere misery could be acceptable in RPGs, but a little bit of chortling at someone else's tragic die roll or some such seems to play just fine.
Inte helt vad du frågar efter, men tangentiellt relevant?
luddwig
Lawful evil
- Joined
- 30 Jan 2013
- Messages
- 5,843
Ja, det ligger nära vad jag funderar på, dock mer på ett spelarplan än ett äventyrsplan så att säga.Genesis;n136486 said:
Krank gjorde också en observation ovan som känns helt korrekt, nämligen att man många gånger kombinerar flera element: intriger, strid, pussel o.s.v. Jag tänker på det som pizza. Pizza är gott men inte någonting jag vill äta varje dag.